Super 8mm Bargain Hunting Debate...

[Alex]

Here is a Quote from someone elses post..."I am trying to avoid big stores that sell super8 equipment since they sell at outrageous prices".

This is the paradox of Super-8. If we "avoid" anyone who sells Super 8mm equipment simply because it is possible to find it elsewhere for less money after an exhaustive search....

....we are killing the very mechanism which helps keep Super-8 visible and viable...Super 8mm product actually sitting on shelves in stores...and being happily bought by appreciative customers.

What keeps Super-8 going???...millions of cameras still surviving in people's closets.

However, these "surplus" 20 year old cameras are exactly why businesses don't take the format seriously enough to support it.

People complain they are being ripped off simply because a store carries a Eumig Nautica
and sells it for $ 295.00

Because we know we can find it on E-bay for $ 95.00, but we further know that one might turn up elsewhere for $ 50.00

I say, you either want the camera or you don't. $ 295.00 is so cheap for a fully functioning film camera, that to bring ill will to a store for providing the means for you to see it and try it BEFORE you buy it...is unfair.

Heaven forbid the camera does not work correctly. "You robbed me man, I paid you and the camera sucks." the victimized Super-8 shopper gripes...."Fix it or I'll call the police!"

Who would want to deal with this low cost-no cost, arrogant mentality for an item that is few and far between, and is at least 20 years old!

The thrill you get from Super-8 should be based on either being a collector, or being a shooter.

A Shooter of Super-8 who puts enormous emphasis on how much they paid for the super-8 camera defeats the whole purpose of the resurgence of Super-8.

Shouldn't you give some credit to a storeowner with monthly overhead that finds a spot for the super-8 camera, and perhaps lets you run a roll through the camera, or at least lets you look at the camera first?

If I were a storeowner who was trying to sell used USED super-8 cameras, the moment I started hearing whining about prices, or that they were ripping a Super-8 customer off, or a super-8 purchaser was demanding a refund, I WOULD DROP THE THOUGHT OF SELLING EVEN ONE SUPER 8 CAMERA OR PROJECTOR.

I wonder how many jugheads out there have caused a store to stop selling super-8mm cameras and projectors simply because Aunt May had the same camera and projector in her own closet, and you could have bought it for twenty bucks, or probably for free if you mowed her lawn once or twice...

...so how dare the store owner sell the same camera and projector for 10 times the price Aunt May was selling hers for!, the arrogant super-8 filmmaker thinks to themselves.

I love a deal as much as the next guy, I just believe sometimes we waste energy condemning the Sellers of Super-8 OPPORTUNITIES rather than putting that energy into making super 8 films.

Alex


[This message has been edited by Alex (edited January 11, 2001).]

[ptryk]

i have also been thinking about the future of super8 and how i effect it.

i agree with what you say alex, but...

maybe, super8 is like airtravel. years ago, it used to be normal to get top service. soon it became so expensive that the airlines had to cut the service because people&businesses were not interested in good service as much as saving money (as an aside, i wonder why europe still basks in the glory of executive travel?!).

nowadays there are very few people that can afford executive air travel; the front of planes seems to be filled with the privilidged few executives from big companies that have not yet felt the pinch from stockholders demanding 20% a year, or some poor schleps that save bonus miles while wasting their life in airports. Perhaps that is just the way it is, that only the professionals with millions to spend and a desperate need for "NOW!", or the poor schleps are the real customers for both executive airtravel AND super8 equipemnt bought in stores.

Maybe it is only the professionals/people with a load of dough to throw around for convienience that should be shopping in the shops who need guarantees, or the people that just don't know there are any other options and run out of time. I dunn-o...

BUT, think of this, airtravel hasn't disapeared, and neither should super8. Super8 will only disappear when we stop making films... or another format appears which at least balances the necessary qualities of super8 which make super8 currently accessible; this is like what digital is doing to video. then if that day comes we can shed a tear, pick up some of the new equipment, bitching and complaining about it 'cuz it just isn't the same, and.. well, thats right, we KEEP MAKING FILMS!!!

[pcg]

Alex,

Wise comments. The bottom line is shooting the film. If we're shooting serious film, we want the cameras to function reliably. The attraction to buying equipment through dealers is that the camera / projector comes w/ a warranty (30- 60- 90, whatever) which we never get when we go cheap at eBay or that proverbial garage sale.

Serious shooters want functional equipment, not cheap junk. I scan eBay w/ the best of us, but I prefer any day to buy what I need from a reliable dealer. In fact, I'd pay 2 - 3 times higher to know that the camera has been cleaned, lubed & adjusted before I start pushing that invaluable film through it...

Enough said.

/Pat

[Alex]

Interesting comments! Yes, we should ultimately just keep making films....

....and yes...we should expect to get a warranty for Super-8 cameras we buy from stores that are legitimate outlets...

and yet that is the dicey part of the equation...many technicians who thrived on super-8 repairs are closing shop!

All that knowledge down the drain...not to mention precious spare parts!

I don't know that I would actually expect storefronts to know anything about the camera other than you pull the trigger and hear a relatively quiet camera motor working...and that the zoom lens and auto and manual exposure functions work.

Too bad there is no association of Super-repair stations to go along with our association of cameraman's list.

Kind of reminds me of running a gas station knowing that no more fuel trucks will be coming by.

As for digital, as digital improves, so does the look of Super-8 transferred to digital.

Many experienced Super-8 technicians may have grown older without the benefit of the internet, and may have no clue that their expertise in Eumig, Elmo, and Canon cameras is sorely needed.

So, if you know of any Super-8 technicians, lets make sure they know about the internet!

If you know a super-8 technician who may be quitting, MAKE SURE THEIR STUFF GOES INTO THE HANDS OF ANOTHER CAPABLE SUPER-8 TECHNICIAN!

Alex


[This message has been edited by Alex (edited January 11, 2001).]

[Hanthx]

Alex

I know your aimed the premise of your post around me, and thats o.k., atleast you didn't call me a stupid prick etc.
I would love to pay the 750.00 dollars that super8 is selling for the Nautica (I believe the price is very close) but some of us can't afford that price. Yes, Super8 Sound has helped keep super8 alive, and they do more good than harm but,...my post was asking whether or not anyone or anbody knows of someone who is willing to sell that camera for a better price. Yes, we all want to buy a camera for a better price with it working perfectly, but we know that doesn't happen much. I do agree with your posts and your ideas, but next time just email me your thoughts and ideas without making me feel like I did something wrong.
By the way, Super8 Sound's website is down, anybody know why?
If Super8 Sound would sell the Nautica with the accessories for $295.00, they would have a buyer in me. But supply is limited, and that camera is in demand, and so the price goes up.
Thanks for the comments,
they are very educated.
Scott

[Alex]

Actually, I purposefully started another thread because that post inspired me.

The funny thing is, I didn't remember who I was responding to,...I just took the quote and ran with a response...

Basically, you were'nt the first poster to voice displeasure with the way various entities treat Super-8 and Super-8 customers, so it was actually yours and other posts I was responding to. (oh great, piss even more people off)

And if you had kept it a secret, a lot less people would have connected the dots...there are a lot of other threads going on at the same time.

As for other sources to get Super-8 equipment....I believe E-Bay is the best place to get the best deal. (with the occasional bad apple selling a lemon)

Yahoo has an auction site with a much smaller selection, on the other hand the prices are a lot cheaper, so if a camera came up on Yahoo that you wanted, you will probably get it a lot cheaper than even E-bay.

Finally, look at the other intelligent comments that were generated from me posting my veiled (not very well) response to your comment.

You deserve a raise after being skewered.

May we call you Jesus.

Alex

[pcg]

Scott!

One of the utterly cool things about this forum is that no one purposely flames anyone else. Check out a couple of other S8 sites--everyone's always cursing each other. Actually very interesting to watch. Who are these morons?

Alex & I are basically saying that knowledgable dealers & experienced repair guys are becoming harder & harder to find. If we don't patronize them when we can, they won't survive. And for S8 to remain vital, we (yeah, I really mean we) need to support them whenever possible. And you're taking risks w/ a buy off eBay--I have been burned myself a few times (& had some great experiences as well: it's always a crap shoot)--

So, nothing personal whatsoever--!

/Pat

[Hanthx]

Thanks for the replies, I too very much enjoy our forum and find the other forum very juvenile. I always respect everybody posts and replies as much as I can, but sometimes my feelings get in the way of the facts. Yah, we do need to support the people who have knowledge to keep our wonderfull Super8 alive, but sometimes I wish the prices and the stakes were so high. I have had alot of good luck with ebay, after timeless searching, but it is a crapshoot.
There's no hard feelings, its encouraging to hear educated responses unlike the other forums. I haven't gone back to them, and visit this one more than one time a day.
Off to L.A.!
Scott

[Alex]

Well, I guess we'll be neighbors...

I hope you have some type of back-up, either money in the bank, a great job, or family...

you'll find the LA experience more fulfilling if you don't have to rationalize taking any bonehead job that comes along simply to pay the rent.

Alex

[Super 8 Guy]

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